Eviction from Jobcentre building (post 2)

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Nomen Nescio

2010-10-06 13:41:41 UTC

At the end of an assessment review for my JSA that ended in a
suspension of my claim (see my previous post), a massive and
aggressive security guard popped in and physically escorted me out,
apparently called by the officer who was interviewing me. I can't
remember myself shouting or yelling abuse nor using psysical force, so
I don't know on what ground, apart from building a ficticious history
of antisocial behavious to back the suspension of my claim. Even the
security himself was apologetic saying that he didn't know why he was
evicting me. I am going to send a complaint straight away.

My question is, as I will have shortly to challenge the decision to
suspend my claim, should I mention this incident into my challenge or
is it going to harm me? Thanks

Robbie

2010-10-06 19:23:13 UTC

Permalink

Post by Nomen Nescio
At the end of an assessment review for my JSA that ended in a
suspension of my claim (see my previous post), a massive and
aggressive security guard popped in and physically escorted me out,
apparently called by the officer who was interviewing me. I can't
remember myself shouting or yelling abuse nor using psysical force, so
I don't know on what ground, apart from building a ficticious history
of antisocial behavious to back the suspension of my claim. Even the
security himself was apologetic saying that he didn't know why he was
evicting me. I am going to send a complaint straight away.
My question is, as I will have shortly to challenge the decision to
suspend my claim, should I mention this incident into my challenge or
is it going to harm me? Thanks

If you were evicted from the jobcentre you can guarantee that your case
will be flagged anyway, presumably your case will be marked as
"potentially violent" and the person who requested the security guard
should have filed a report about the matter.

It shouldn't affect the outcome of you challenging a decision about your
JSA though. However, if you have been aggressive in the past you need to
be aware that ultimately you can be banned from entering the jobcentre
unless a police officer is present - I've seen this happen before and it
isn't a pleasant experience for all concerned.

--
Robbie

mike

2010-10-06 20:08:50 UTC

Permalink

Post by Robbie

Not sure about that - if the OP is being entirely honest he was just
being awkward which whilst that may justify being asked to leave and
being escorted out it wouldn't earn him a 'PV' marking.

That said the OP doesn't sound too sure: "I can't remember myself
shouting or yelling abuse nor using psysical force" I'd expect a more
definitive statement, and " aggressive security guard" who was apologetic!

Post by Robbie
It shouldn't affect the outcome of you challenging a decision about your
JSA though. However, if you have been aggressive in the past you need to
be aware that ultimately you can be banned from entering the jobcentre
unless a police officer is present - I've seen this happen before and it
isn't a pleasant experience for all concerned.

JC management discourage their staff from making PV reports and to be
honest after a while the staff become blasé about it, which in itself is
dangerous. 99% of people who threaten staff or become abusive won't
become violent but the odd 1% of nut jobs will wait for you outside or
come back with a weapon.

In my 15+ years at a JC and BA offices I was threatened countless times,
possibly 1000+ only a few tried to make good.

Mike

Robbie

2010-10-06 20:55:55 UTC

Permalink

Post by mike

Post by Robbie

Not sure about that - if the OP is being entirely honest he was just
being awkward which whilst that may justify being asked to leave and
being escorted out it wouldn't earn him a 'PV' marking.
That said the OP doesn't sound too sure: "I can't remember myself
shouting or yelling abuse nor using psysical force" I'd expect a more
definitive statement, and " aggressive security guard" who was apologetic!

JC management discourage their staff from making PV reports and to be
honest after a while the staff become blasé about it, which in itself is
dangerous. 99% of people who threaten staff or become abusive won't
become violent but the odd 1% of nut jobs will wait for you outside or
come back with a weapon.
In my 15+ years at a JC and BA offices I was threatened countless times,
possibly 1000+ only a few tried to make good.
Mike

I was threatened several times but took little notice of it when it was
in the office. I just put it down to the screens making people get very
worked up and angry. However I was once threatened while making a home
visit, not by a claimant but by the landlord. The claimant had waited so
long for his benefit to be sorted out he had left (unknown to us) by the
time I made a verification visit. The landlord answered the door,
politely invited me in and then walked behind me into the living room
and promptly shut the living room door, standing in front of it. He then
began to verbally abuse me, refused to let me out when I asked him to
open the door and when I asked him what he was going to do he said he
was going to kill me and started to walk towards me. Fortunately someone
rang his front doorbell at that very moment and after hesitating for a
couple of seconds he went to answer the door. Once the door was open I
pushed past him, said to the person he was talking to something like "I
wouldn't go in there, the bloke is a nutter and he has just threatened
to kill me" and immediately went back to the office and was completely
shaken. In fact so much so I had to go home as I was in a complete
panic! I honestly believe that if the doorbell hadn't gone when it did
he would have at the very least beaten me up.

I never reported it to the police, despite my both my boss and the
office manager encouraging me to do so. In hindsight I should have
done so. They even offered to send round a couple of strapping blokes
from our regional fraud squad who were rugby players for a well known
rugby union team to "have a word with him" - basically they probably
would have kicked the crap out of him and as I didn't want that I just
let the matter drop. But after that I never went into a room first with
the claimant standing behind me and I always stood next to the room door
so they couldn't even shut it.

mike

2010-10-06 21:09:06 UTC

Not sure about that - if the OP is being entirely honest he was just
being awkward which whilst that may justify being asked to leave and
being escorted out it wouldn't earn him a 'PV' marking.
That said the OP doesn't sound too sure: "I can't remember myself
shouting or yelling abuse nor using psysical force" I'd expect a more
definitive statement, and " aggressive security guard" who was apologetic!

JC management discourage their staff from making PV reports and to be
honest after a while the staff become blasé about it, which in itself is
dangerous. 99% of people who threaten staff or become abusive won't
become violent but the odd 1% of nut jobs will wait for you outside or
come back with a weapon.
In my 15+ years at a JC and BA offices I was threatened countless times,
possibly 1000+ only a few tried to make good.
Mike

I was threatened several times but took little notice of it when it was
in the office. I just put it down to the screens making people get very
worked up and angry. However I was once threatened while making a home
visit, not by a claimant but by the landlord. The claimant had waited so
long for his benefit to be sorted out he had left (unknown to us) by the
time I made a verification visit. The landlord answered the door,
politely invited me in and then walked behind me into the living room
and promptly shut the living room door, standing in front of it. He then
began to verbally abuse me, refused to let me out when I asked him to
open the door and when I asked him what he was going to do he said he
was going to kill me and started to walk towards me. Fortunately someone
rang his front doorbell at that very moment and after hesitating for a
couple of seconds he went to answer the door. Once the door was open I
pushed past him, said to the person he was talking to something like "I
wouldn't go in there, the bloke is a nutter and he has just threatened
to kill me" and immediately went back to the office and was completely
shaken. In fact so much so I had to go home as I was in a complete
panic! I honestly believe that if the doorbell hadn't gone when it did
he would have at the very least beaten me up.
I never reported it to the police, despite my both my boss and the
office manager encouraging me to do so. In hindsight I should have
done so. They even offered to send round a couple of strapping blokes
from our regional fraud squad who were rugby players for a well known
rugby union team to "have a word with him" - basically they probably
would have kicked the crap out of him and as I didn't want that I just
let the matter drop. But after that I never went into a room first with
the claimant standing behind me and I always stood next to the room door
so they couldn't even shut it.

Home visits are generally less tense which of course means you don't get
the run of the mill abuse but the absolute nutters are still there and
still dangerous. PV markings are the only real warning system in place
hence it's vital threats and real abuse are reported properly.

One of the most ugly incidents I was ever involved in was at a home
visit, could have turned physical very easily. I found out he'd made
serious threats in the office a couple of months before when refused a
loan and the colleague involved had brushed them off.

Needless to say my feelings about her blasé attitude towards the safety
of her colleagues where made very clear.

Mike

Robbie

2010-10-06 21:50:29 UTC

Not sure about that - if the OP is being entirely honest he was just
being awkward which whilst that may justify being asked to leave and
being escorted out it wouldn't earn him a 'PV' marking.
That said the OP doesn't sound too sure: "I can't remember myself
shouting or yelling abuse nor using psysical force" I'd expect a more
definitive statement, and " aggressive security guard" who was apologetic!

JC management discourage their staff from making PV reports and to be
honest after a while the staff become blasé about it, which in itself is
dangerous. 99% of people who threaten staff or become abusive won't
become violent but the odd 1% of nut jobs will wait for you outside or
come back with a weapon.
In my 15+ years at a JC and BA offices I was threatened countless times,
possibly 1000+ only a few tried to make good.
Mike

I was threatened several times but took little notice of it when it was
in the office. I just put it down to the screens making people get very
worked up and angry. However I was once threatened while making a home
visit, not by a claimant but by the landlord. The claimant had waited so
long for his benefit to be sorted out he had left (unknown to us) by the
time I made a verification visit. The landlord answered the door,
politely invited me in and then walked behind me into the living room
and promptly shut the living room door, standing in front of it. He then
began to verbally abuse me, refused to let me out when I asked him to
open the door and when I asked him what he was going to do he said he
was going to kill me and started to walk towards me. Fortunately someone
rang his front doorbell at that very moment and after hesitating for a
couple of seconds he went to answer the door. Once the door was open I
pushed past him, said to the person he was talking to something like "I
wouldn't go in there, the bloke is a nutter and he has just threatened
to kill me" and immediately went back to the office and was completely
shaken. In fact so much so I had to go home as I was in a complete
panic! I honestly believe that if the doorbell hadn't gone when it did
he would have at the very least beaten me up.
I never reported it to the police, despite my both my boss and the
office manager encouraging me to do so. In hindsight I should have
done so. They even offered to send round a couple of strapping blokes
from our regional fraud squad who were rugby players for a well known
rugby union team to "have a word with him" - basically they probably
would have kicked the crap out of him and as I didn't want that I just
let the matter drop. But after that I never went into a room first with
the claimant standing behind me and I always stood next to the room door
so they couldn't even shut it.

Home visits are generally less tense which of course means you don't get
the run of the mill abuse but the absolute nutters are still there and
still dangerous. PV markings are the only real warning system in place
hence it's vital threats and real abuse are reported properly.
One of the most ugly incidents I was ever involved in was at a home
visit, could have turned physical very easily. I found out he'd made
serious threats in the office a couple of months before when refused a
loan and the colleague involved had brushed them off.
Needless to say my feelings about her blasé attitude towards the safety
of her colleagues where made very clear.
Mike

A visiting officer was raped and murdered in 1980, as far as I am aware
the only one to have been murdered though a number have been assaulted.
It turned out the person she was visiting had been abusive in the office
but nothing had ever been put down on paper. A week later the female
visiting officer did her fatal home visit. It was as a result of this
incident that the PV procedures were tightened up, including the
introduction of the special PV stamp that used to be used on the A12 (I
think that was the case file jacket form number). I assume now a flag is
set on the computer record.

My biggest problem on home visits eventually turned out to be not
potentially violent claimants but rather a handful of times women making
it obvious (very obvious in one instance!) what was on offer, presumably
in return for getting whatever it is they were after from the benefits
office. I wasn't that desperate for sex and certainly not to pit my job
at risk so I would just make my excuses and leave and then when back at
the office I would write up a report and mark their case "Female VO
only". The very obvious one I mentioned had a bathrobe on and twice let
it fall open showing very clearly that she had nothing on underneath.
When it happened the second time I suggested she should perhaps tie it
up to close it and she offered to remove it completely if I was
interested! When I told my HEO he just laughed and asked if she was
decent looking - I told him she was quite ugly, which was true! I don't
know if it was just our office that had this problem but I wasn't the
only visiting officer in our office who was propositioned...

mike

2010-10-07 06:44:04 UTC

Not sure about that - if the OP is being entirely honest he was just
being awkward which whilst that may justify being asked to leave and
being escorted out it wouldn't earn him a 'PV' marking.
That said the OP doesn't sound too sure: "I can't remember myself
shouting or yelling abuse nor using psysical force" I'd expect a more
definitive statement, and " aggressive security guard" who was apologetic!

JC management discourage their staff from making PV reports and to be
honest after a while the staff become blasé about it, which in itself is
dangerous. 99% of people who threaten staff or become abusive won't
become violent but the odd 1% of nut jobs will wait for you outside or
come back with a weapon.
In my 15+ years at a JC and BA offices I was threatened countless times,
possibly 1000+ only a few tried to make good.
Mike

I was threatened several times but took little notice of it when it was
in the office. I just put it down to the screens making people get very
worked up and angry. However I was once threatened while making a home
visit, not by a claimant but by the landlord. The claimant had waited so
long for his benefit to be sorted out he had left (unknown to us) by the
time I made a verification visit. The landlord answered the door,
politely invited me in and then walked behind me into the living room
and promptly shut the living room door, standing in front of it. He then
began to verbally abuse me, refused to let me out when I asked him to
open the door and when I asked him what he was going to do he said he
was going to kill me and started to walk towards me. Fortunately someone
rang his front doorbell at that very moment and after hesitating for a
couple of seconds he went to answer the door. Once the door was open I
pushed past him, said to the person he was talking to something like "I
wouldn't go in there, the bloke is a nutter and he has just threatened
to kill me" and immediately went back to the office and was completely
shaken. In fact so much so I had to go home as I was in a complete
panic! I honestly believe that if the doorbell hadn't gone when it did
he would have at the very least beaten me up.
I never reported it to the police, despite my both my boss and the
office manager encouraging me to do so. In hindsight I should have
done so. They even offered to send round a couple of strapping blokes
from our regional fraud squad who were rugby players for a well known
rugby union team to "have a word with him" - basically they probably
would have kicked the crap out of him and as I didn't want that I just
let the matter drop. But after that I never went into a room first with
the claimant standing behind me and I always stood next to the room door
so they couldn't even shut it.

Home visits are generally less tense which of course means you don't get
the run of the mill abuse but the absolute nutters are still there and
still dangerous. PV markings are the only real warning system in place
hence it's vital threats and real abuse are reported properly.
One of the most ugly incidents I was ever involved in was at a home
visit, could have turned physical very easily. I found out he'd made
serious threats in the office a couple of months before when refused a
loan and the colleague involved had brushed them off.
Needless to say my feelings about her blasé attitude towards the safety
of her colleagues where made very clear.
Mike

A visiting officer was raped and murdered in 1980, as far as I am aware
the only one to have been murdered though a number have been assaulted.
It turned out the person she was visiting had been abusive in the office
but nothing had ever been put down on paper. A week later the female
visiting officer did her fatal home visit. It was as a result of this
incident that the PV procedures were tightened up, including the
introduction of the special PV stamp that used to be used on the A12 (I
think that was the case file jacket form number). I assume now a flag is
set on the computer record.
My biggest problem on home visits eventually turned out to be not
potentially violent claimants but rather a handful of times women making
it obvious (very obvious in one instance!) what was on offer, presumably
in return for getting whatever it is they were after from the benefits
office. I wasn't that desperate for sex and certainly not to pit my job
at risk so I would just make my excuses and leave and then when back at
the office I would write up a report and mark their case "Female VO
only". The very obvious one I mentioned had a bathrobe on and twice let
it fall open showing very clearly that she had nothing on underneath.
When it happened the second time I suggested she should perhaps tie it
up to close it and she offered to remove it completely if I was
interested! When I told my HEO he just laughed and asked if she was
decent looking - I told him she was quite ugly, which was true! I don't
know if it was just our office that had this problem but I wasn't the
only visiting officer in our office who was propositioned...

Low level sexual harassment (some might call it flirting!) is probably
more common than threats at visits. I don't recall any direct
propositioning though, usually unsubtle flirting occurred. I blame the
dept for sending out handsome young men such as myself ;-)

Whilst I treated it as giggle I know of a couple of female VO's left
quite scared. One turned quite creepy started ringing the office asking
her to come and see him and he made lots of sexually loaded comments.
Went on for a few weeks until it was made very clear his advances were
not welcome.

Mike

Keith P

2010-10-07 11:50:44 UTC

Permalink

Post by Robbie
I never reported it to the police, despite my both my boss and the
office manager encouraging me to do so. In hindsight I should have
done so. They even offered to send round a couple of strapping blokes
from our regional fraud squad who were rugby players for a well known
rugby union team to "have a word with him" - basically they probably
would have kicked the crap out of him and as I didn't want that I just
let the matter drop. But after that I never went into a room first with
the claimant standing behind me and I always stood next to the room door
so they couldn't even shut it.

Cowboys would NEVER sit with their backs to a door when playing cards.

Niteawk

2010-10-07 23:34:28 UTC

Permalink

I would say that you should give an accurate account of events as they
unfolded.