ESA fiasco continues, ATOS healthcare strikes again.

[Niteawk]

As you know I claimed ESA last year, I was put through the entire system, I
failed the ATOS sham medical so I appealed and won my case at Tribunal in
Feb 2010.

Then I was immediately hit with a sanction of the component rate for failing
to attend the WRAG. So I appealed against that as well and won. What a cunt
eh!.

Since then I have been called in for another ATOS sham medical. I just had a
letter through today telling me I failed, I was only given 6 points.

Anyway I saw a nurse this time, well she said she was a nurse, looked like
an illegal immigrant to me. Every official I have seen so far is either
brown or black which is probably why they keep failing me, they do not like
white people.

So once again I am back to square one, sort of, they have paid up the
component rate they owed from last year so I have a healthy bank balance.

This means I can take my time with the latest appeal, let them save a few
more quids for me, it should come to a fair amount by xmas. Then there is
the component rate, which is backdated when I win my appeal again.

The trials and tribulations of claiming ESA, I actually like the system now
that I know it inside out.

[Robbie]

Post by Niteawk
As you know I claimed ESA last year, I was put through the entire
system, I failed the ATOS sham medical so I appealed and won my case at
Tribunal in Feb 2010.
Then I was immediately hit with a sanction of the component rate for
failing to attend the WRAG. So I appealed against that as well and won.
What a cunt eh!.
Since then I have been called in for another ATOS sham medical. I just
had a letter through today telling me I failed, I was only given 6 points.
Anyway I saw a nurse this time, well she said she was a nurse, looked
like an illegal immigrant to me. Every official I have seen so far is
either brown or black which is probably why they keep failing me, they
do not like white people.
So once again I am back to square one, sort of, they have paid up the
component rate they owed from last year so I have a healthy bank balance.
This means I can take my time with the latest appeal, let them save a
few more quids for me, it should come to a fair amount by xmas. Then
there is the component rate, which is backdated when I win my appeal again.
The trials and tribulations of claiming ESA, I actually like the system
now that I know it inside out.

Good luck on having an appeal heard this side of next summer... there's
a 9 month backlog for appeals here in the north east...

[Niteawk]

Good luck on having an appeal heard this side of next summer... there's a
9 month backlog for appeals here in the north east...

Funny enough, my last appeal took 9 months to get to tribunal, on the plus
side doctors have to give you certs up until the appeal hearing. It think it
will take nearer 12 months this time because everyone is going to tribunal.
In a strange way I think the DWP is responsible for keeping people on the
sick because no one can afford to lose a months benefit by going over to JSA
so they are going to stick with it. Whereas if they were told at the sham
medical they failed, they could decide to go back on JSA without losing any
benefit. In that respect, the only option you have is to appeal, knowing you
will get ESA without the component rate which happens to be the same rate as
JSA.

[m***@hotmail.com]

Post by Niteawk
As you know I claimed ESA last year, I was put through the entire system, I
failed the ATOS sham medical so I appealed and won my case at Tribunal in
Feb 2010.
Then I was immediately hit with a sanction of the component rate for failing
to attend the WRAG. So I appealed against that as well and won. What a cunt
eh!.
Since then I have been called in for another ATOS sham medical. I just had a
letter through today telling me I failed, I was only given 6 points.
Anyway I saw a nurse this time, well she said she was a nurse, looked like
an illegal immigrant to me. Every official I have seen so far is either
brown or black which is probably why they keep failing me, they do not like
white people.
So once again I am back to square one, sort of, they have paid up the
component rate they owed from last year so I have a healthy bank balance.
This means I can take my time with the latest appeal, let them save a few
more quids for me, it should come to a fair amount by xmas. Then there is
the component rate, which is backdated when I win my appeal again.
The trials and tribulations of claiming ESA, I actually like the system now
that I know it inside out.

Might be nothing to do with them not liking white people, they may
just not like you. Especially if you act like you don't like them.

Still, glad you are liking the system.

Martin <><

[Niteawk]

<***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:82f01db1-ad38-4d25-a729-***@w21g2000vby.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 17, 10:11 pm, "Niteawk" <***@btinternet.com> wrote:

Might be nothing to do with them not liking white people, they may
just not like you. Especially if you act like you don't like them.

Still, glad you are liking the system.

Martin <><

__________________________________________

Possibly or mayby it is because English being a second language they do not
fully understand what you are saying, and presenting them with a doctor
letter is a waste of time because they can't read to well either. That ties
in with most peoples experience of ATOS, on receiving the medical reports
they say everything they said was completely ignored. Either way it is cause
for concern when ATOS is using foreign nurses who can barely speak English
to overturn decisions made by qualified doctors. Well actually, the final
decision rests with the DWP, someone with no medical experience at all who
has never met you, decides you fate.

Then again this is all in line with the governments pledge to kick a million
people off the sick, what better way to do this than to employ people who do
not understand English, so maybe its not racism but good old fashioned
British corruption at its best. This would also explain why my local JC
employs mostly asian staff, they know they will abuse their positions to
attack white people. ;)

[m***@hotmail.com]

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Might be nothing to do with them not liking white people, they may
just not like you. Especially if you act like you don't like them.
Still, glad you are liking the system.
Martin  <><
__________________________________________
Possibly or mayby it is because English being a second language they do not
fully understand what you are saying, and presenting them with a doctor
letter is a waste of time because they can't read to well either. That ties
in with most peoples experience of ATOS, on receiving the medical reports
they say everything they said was completely ignored. Either way it is cause
for concern when ATOS is using foreign nurses who can barely speak English
to overturn decisions made by qualified doctors. Well actually, the final
decision rests with the DWP, someone with no medical experience at all who
has never met you, decides you fate.
Then again this is all in line with the governments pledge to kick a million
people off the sick, what better way to do this than to employ people who do
not understand English, so maybe its not racism but good old fashioned
British corruption at its best. This would also explain why my local JC
employs mostly asian staff, they know they will abuse their positions to
attack white people. ;)

Yes, the DWP figured out many years ago that having doctors (being
paid as doctors) making administration decisions was too expensive and
slow. And got non-medical staff to make the admin decisions. Not to
mention making benefits so they follow a decision tree design. Is the
claimant able to climb stairs unaided? If yes go to box 2a, if no go
to box 5b. And so on.
Makes it so even a complicated benefit like disability living
allowance can be decided by admin staff.
I don't recall any benefit in the last couple of decades that had
doctors deciding anything.

Come to think of it though, the requirements for benefit and what your
doctor sees can be two very different things, so even your own doctor
often won't know enough to tell the DWP how your medical problem
limits you personally. So will ATOS be overturning decisions made by
qualified doctors? Or will they be making decisions based on different
criteria than those qualified doctors?

I find your views about foreigners amusing. Old fashioned (goes back
centuries), but amusing.

Martin <><

[Niteawk]

<***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2b7a5a28-64e4-4f8d-8fdd-***@u8g2000vby.googlegroups.com...

Yes, the DWP figured out many years ago that having doctors (being
paid as doctors) making administration decisions was too expensive and
slow. And got non-medical staff to make the admin decisions. Not to
mention making benefits so they follow a decision tree design. Is the
claimant able to climb stairs unaided? If yes go to box 2a, if no go
to box 5b. And so on.
Makes it so even a complicated benefit like disability living
allowance can be decided by admin staff.
I don't recall any benefit in the last couple of decades that had
doctors deciding anything.

Come to think of it though, the requirements for benefit and what your
doctor sees can be two very different things, so even your own doctor
often won't know enough to tell the DWP how your medical problem
limits you personally. So will ATOS be overturning decisions made by
qualified doctors? Or will they be making decisions based on different
criteria than those qualified doctors?

I find your views about foreigners amusing. Old fashioned (goes back
centuries), but amusing.

Martin <><

_____________________________________________________

What you are saying here in a nutshell is, the whole system is corrupt. The
laws in place to protect peoples rights are being ignored, counter laws are
created to ride roughshod over them.

Imagine this scenario. You are signed off as unfit for work by a qualified
GP, but the DWP says you are fit for work. That means your doctor must be
guilty of gross negligence. You sue the NHS alleging your GP gave you
medication that you clearly did not need. You back this up with evidence
from a DM and an ATOS medical report to prove your case. I suppose the DWP
and ATOS would not want to get involved if you brought a case against the
NHS based on what they said, because it is a load of crap.

[m***@hotmail.com]

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Yes, the DWP figured out many years ago that having doctors (being
paid as doctors) making administration decisions was too expensive and
slow. And got non-medical staff to make the admin decisions. Not to
mention making benefits so they follow a decision tree design. Is the
claimant able to climb stairs unaided? If yes go to box 2a, if no go
to box 5b. And so on.
Makes it so even a complicated benefit like disability living
allowance can be decided by admin staff.
I don't recall any benefit in the last couple of decades that had
doctors deciding anything.
Come to think of it though, the requirements for benefit and what your
doctor sees can be two very different things, so even your own doctor
often won't know enough to tell the DWP how your medical problem
limits you personally. So will ATOS be overturning decisions made by
qualified doctors? Or will they be making decisions based on different
criteria than those qualified doctors?
I find your views about foreigners amusing. Old fashioned (goes back
centuries), but amusing.
Martin  <><
_____________________________________________________
What you are saying here in a nutshell is, the whole system is corrupt. The
laws in place to protect peoples rights are being ignored, counter laws are
created to ride roughshod over them.
Imagine this scenario. You are signed off as unfit for work by a qualified
GP, but the DWP says you are fit for work. That means your doctor must be
guilty of gross negligence. You sue the NHS alleging your GP gave you
medication that you clearly did not need. You back this up with evidence
from a DM and an ATOS medical report to prove your case. I suppose the DWP
and ATOS would not want to get involved if you brought a case against the
NHS based on what they said, because it is a load of crap.

No, you are signed off your work as unfit. Based maybe on cursory
examination by GP and what you tell them. Often diagnosis of even
minor problems require tests, consultants etc. Just because you can no
longer work as a builder (if that is your work) doesn't mean unable to
do any type of work.
GPs don't have the time or often the expertise in all areas to make a
definitive statement about you.

If you said you were depressed and described your symptoms as what
fits with depression (after maybe reading wikipedia or an article in a
magazine), your GP isn't going to say you aren't depressed. May give
you some pills and refer you to 'nutty nora the mental health nurse'.
With a wait of a few months, maybe she'll refer you to a consultant
psychiatrist at the hospital. But can anyone say you aren't depressed,
seeing as most of what they have to go on is you telling them what
your symptoms are?
May not stop you doing all work, may only stop you doing your
particular job, maybe not even then.

And no, the whole system isn't corrupt. That may of course be your
view of it - doesn't make it right.

Martin <><

[Niteawk]

<***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:9ccf13a9-9ccb-4059-804d-***@c39g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
snip

May not stop you doing all work, may only stop you doing your
particular job, maybe not even then.

And no, the whole system isn't corrupt. That may of course be your
view of it - doesn't make it right.

Martin <><

__________________________________________
You can't fool doctors as easy as you are saying, I can tell by looking at
people if they have mental illness. Ask PC Henry's colleagues if you don't
believe me. The signs are there to be seen, most will have a history of
mental illness from a vey young age that you can't fake.

This is where you and the DWP are contradicting themselves. People may not
be fit to do their regular jobs, thats fair enough. But the DWP does not
take that into account, they will declare you fit for all types of work.

The whole idea is to deter people from claiming ESA which they are entitled
to, the DWP is prepared to break every rule in the book to achieve this,
that is what makes them corrupt.

Even the bloody MP's are corrupt because they turn a blind eye to this type
of maladminstration. No DWP staff are held to account for any wrong doing.

In my case I have already been to tribunal a few months back, yet they still
persist despite the mountain of evidence against them. That is about as
corrupt as you can get, and that is not my view, that is based on first hand
experience of this bent system and its corrupt unqualified officials.

[m***@hotmail.com]

Post by m***@hotmail.com
snip
May not stop you doing all work, may only stop you doing your
particular job, maybe not even then.
And no, the whole system isn't corrupt. That may of course be your
view of it - doesn't make it right.
Martin  <><
__________________________________________
You can't fool doctors as easy as you are saying, I can tell by looking at
people if they have mental illness. Ask PC Henry's colleagues if you don't
believe me. The signs are there to be seen, most will have a history of
mental illness from a vey young age that you can't fake.
This is where you and the DWP are contradicting themselves. People may not
be fit to do their regular jobs, thats fair enough. But the DWP does not
take that into account, they will declare you fit for all types of work.
The whole idea is to deter people from claiming ESA which they are entitled
to, the DWP is prepared to break every rule in the book to achieve this,
that is what makes them corrupt.
Even the bloody MP's are corrupt because they turn a blind eye to this type
of maladminstration. No DWP staff are held to account for any wrong doing.
In my case I have already been to tribunal a few months back, yet they still
persist despite the mountain of evidence against them. That is about as
corrupt as you can get, and that is not my view, that is based on first hand
experience of this bent system and its corrupt unqualified officials.

Then you will have a skill that doctors don't have.
They can't tell just by looking if someone has a mental illness. And
who is PC Henry?
A history of mental illness can't be faked, that you are right about.
Seeing as it will be recorded in medical documents, you can't claim it
didn't happen. It would be like claiming that your birth didn't
happen. :)

DWP declare you fit to work, as I recall. Not fit for all types of
work, the types of work will be a different decision. Someone who is
now unable to drive won't be able to do driving jobs, someone who is
now hard of hearing may be unable to do call centre work without
adjustments, and so on.

So what rules are the DWP breaking? the rules relating to the care and
feeding of cats? the rules relating to ESA? Or what?

MPs being corrupt? I thought that was settled when the expenses
scandal broke and a lot of them (not sure it was all) were shown to be
on the fiddle for a fraction of their salary. No-one officially had
the guts to fiddle billions.
Not sure how you get the idea that DWP staff aren't held to account
for wrongdoing. Have you reported the wrongdoing? Has there been an
investigation? Are you happy with the results of the investigation or
are you taking it to the ombudsman?

So you went to a tribunal about a claim, and as I recall had the money
awarded and paid to you. Now you are saying they persist despite a
mountain of evidence? Exactly what evidence do you have for the new
decision?

Martin <><

[Niteawk]

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Then you will have a skill that doctors don't have.

When you have seen as many nutters as I have, you soon learn to recognise
the signs, some look washed out, extremely nervous and withdrawn, some
display unusual behaviour like moving a bloody chair every 2 minutes or
laughing for no reason, some cry all the time. Others betray themselves when
they speak showing a mental age of 10 or less. The real dangerous ones say
nothing, they sit and stare into space and will attack you in the blink of
an eye if you get to close. The list is almost endless. And thats me with no
medical training, imagine how easy it must be for people who are trained to
deal with people like that on a daily basis. For eg I can tell you have
mental issues, although not destructive, very annoying nonetheless. If I was
in the same room as you for more than an hour, I would probably try to kill
you and no one would blame me, that's if someone didn't beat me to it first.
;)

Post by m***@hotmail.com
So what rules are the DWP breaking? the rules relating to the care and
feeding of cats? the rules relating to ESA? Or what?

The rules they are breaking state you are entitled to claim ESA once you
produce a medical cert declaring you unfit for work. They take it upon
themselves to ignore real medical evidence.

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Exactly what evidence do you have for the new decision?

No change in my circumstances and a tribunal has already tried my case and
awarded me ESA based on that evidence.

[m***@hotmail.com]

Post by Niteawk

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Then you will have a skill that doctors don't have.

When you have seen as many nutters as I have, you soon learn to recognise
the signs, some look washed out, extremely nervous and withdrawn, some
display unusual behaviour like moving a bloody chair every 2 minutes or
laughing for no reason, some cry all the time. Others betray themselves when
they speak showing a mental age of 10 or less. The real dangerous ones say
nothing, they sit and stare into space and will attack you in the blink of
an eye if you get to close. The list is almost endless. And thats me with no
medical training, imagine how easy it must be for people who are trained to
deal with people like that on a daily basis. For eg I can tell you have
mental issues, although not destructive, very annoying nonetheless. If I was
in the same room as you for more than an hour, I would probably try to kill
you and no one would blame me, that's if someone didn't beat me to it first.
;)

Post by m***@hotmail.com
So what rules are the DWP breaking? the rules relating to the care and
feeding of cats? the rules relating to ESA? Or what?

The rules they are breaking state you are entitled to claim ESA once you
produce a medical cert declaring you unfit for work. They take it upon
themselves to ignore real medical evidence.

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Exactly what evidence do you have for the new decision?

No change in my circumstances and a tribunal has already tried my case and
awarded me ESA based on that evidence.

You've just described some of the more extreme visible mental
illness, along with drug users needing a fix and alcoholics in
desperate need of a drink. Neither of the latter two themselves are
seen as mentally ill. So you are picking up some as mentally ill when
they aren't. Some skill you have....
You haven't however described the less extreme mentally ill. The
postman delivering your mail, the next door neighbour, the mum pushing
a pushchair down the street past you can suffer from mental illness -
and not show visible signs you'll see.
Depression is one of the more common mental illnesses - and depressed
people usually don't go around with a sad face, or a sign saying 'I'm
depressed'.

You don't often hear of people who attack others who sit too close,
though the 'thousand yard stare' is fairly common at times among ex-
front line military. Also common among deep thinkers, but they also
don't tend to attack others.

Suprised you can tell I have mental issues, that would be news to my
doctor. And me. And no, you could not kill me. So no blame attached to
you. :)
Better than you have tried and failed.

Do the rules regarding ESA not also require you to have a medical and
the results of that used to determine if award of ESA is made from
that point?
Or are you ignoring rules you don't like?

And you have had a medical, tribunal awarded, now time for another
medical (as does happen) and this one you have lost. You state no
change, medical disagrees. So you go through the process again....

Martin <><

[Niteawk]

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Suprised you can tell I have mental issues, that would be news to my
doctor. And me. And no, you could not kill me. So no blame attached to
you. :)
Better than you have tried and failed.

You think so do you, being ex army and trained in many wonderful ways to
take out sentries silently, believe me, you would not stand a chance if I
made a move on you, by the time you realised I was there, thats to late.

Post by m***@hotmail.com
And you have had a medical, tribunal awarded, now time for another
medical (as does happen) and this one you have lost. You state no
change, medical disagrees. So you go through the process again....

I have more evidence this time round and a letter signed by a tribunal judge
awarding me ESA, so they have not got a fucking leg to stand on. But being
bureaucrats, thats what they do, its to be expected. Basically they like
wasting tax payers money.

[m***@hotmail.com]

Post by Niteawk

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Suprised you can tell I have mental issues, that would be news to my
doctor. And me. And no, you could not kill me. So no blame attached to
you.  :)
Better than you have tried and failed.

You think so do you, being ex army and trained in many wonderful ways to
take out sentries silently, believe me, you would not stand a chance if I
made a move on you, by the time you realised I was there, thats to late.

Post by m***@hotmail.com
And you have had a medical, tribunal awarded, now time for another
medical (as does happen) and this one you have lost. You state no
change, medical disagrees. So you go through the process again....

I have more evidence this time round and a letter signed by a tribunal judge
awarding me ESA, so they have not got a fucking leg to stand on. But being
bureaucrats, thats what they do, its to be expected. Basically they like
wasting tax payers money.

Believe what you want about what you can do, I know myself.
Must admit, never tried taking down a sentry silently, is it fun?

You have a letter awarding ESA from your claim. Do you have a letter
awarding you from a later medical?

So how long did the appeal decision award you for? Why were you given
a medical more recently?

Martin <><

[Niteawk]

Why were you given a medical more recently?

I guess someone does not like me very much, this is a classic example of how
staff at the DWP abuse people. Using the system to make life difficult
simply because they can. I dare say when I win my next appeal, they will
call me in again to repeat the process. Eventually I will have a folder full
of tribunal decisions in my favour.

Funny thing is, I just had a phone call from a DM re my latest appeal, this
is something new to me. He wanted to go through the medical report to see if
it was accurate and to see if he could award me more points. Obviously they
know I already have a decision in my favour going back a few months,
ironically they do not have a copy of the tribunals decision on my file. Who
the fuck deleted that important piece of information, thats an act of
sabotage IMO. Anyway I don't think it will look good for them hauling me up
before another tribunal for exactly the same thing.

The DM now wants a letter from my doctor confirming which particular
descriptors apply to me, they would have got that info anyway once it was
put forward for tribunal. So as well as my legal adviser asking my doctor to
write a letter, now I have to make an appointment to get my doctor to write
yet another letter specifically relating to 2 descriptors, it looks like
they want me to piss my doctor right off. Doctors do not have that amount of
time to waste on one patient, OTOH the DWP can fuck about all it wants,
actually I would rather a tribunal decided my case than some DM living in
cloud cuckoo land because thats where the fuckers are living if they think
doctors have nothing better to do than write letters for the DWP.

They are slowly but surely making a case of harassment against me, once I
have enough evidence, that is exactly what I am going to accuse them of,
after I complain to my MP about them again!