Jobseeker's dis-agreement (post 1 of 2)

[Nomen Nescio]

I am a long term Jsa receiver. This morning I had one of many 3 months
review assessments. The JC+ officer changed my jobsearch targets from
IT to warehouse work. I asked why and she said that I have no written
qualifications for that kind of work and I have been unemployed for
too long to justify that kind of jobsearch.
I replied that I don't have qualifications or work experience for
warehouse work either and she said that you don't need any experience
or qualification to work in a factory. I said that nowadays it's much
more difficult in this country to work in a factory than in IT because
the manufacturing industry is dead while office work is still
available, plus I have experience in IT though not recently.
She decided that she will suspend my claim until I change my mind plus
she called the security guard to evict me from the building (see post
2).

The question now is: what to do? Can I challenge this decision and how?
Do I have to wait till they call me to explain my reasons or should I
act now? I am at loss. Would I lose all my benefit or will it just be
suspended for some time? I think this is just intimidation. How do I
get round this? There's definitely no quick way to get into work in my
area, if I lose my benefit I'm done. Thanks

[Monty]

Post by Nomen Nescio
I am a long term Jsa receiver. This morning I had one of many 3 months
review assessments. The JC+ officer changed my jobsearch targets from
IT to warehouse work. I asked why and she said that I have no written
qualifications for that kind of work and I have been unemployed for
too long to justify that kind of jobsearch.
I replied that I don't have qualifications or work experience for
warehouse work either and she said that you don't need any experience
or qualification to work in a factory. I said that nowadays it's much
more difficult in this country to work in a factory than in IT because
the manufacturing industry is dead while office work is still
available, plus I have experience in IT though not recently.
She decided that she will suspend my claim until I change my mind plus
she called the security guard to evict me from the building (see post
2).
The question now is: what to do? Can I challenge this decision and how?
Do I have to wait till they call me to explain my reasons or should I
act now? I am at loss. Would I lose all my benefit or will it just be
suspended for some time? I think this is just intimidation. How do I
get round this? There's definitely no quick way to get into work in my
area, if I lose my benefit I'm done. Thanks

I had exactly the same thing. I just asked every time I went for an
interview if they would tell the JC quite truthfully that I am entirely
unsuitable for factory work. It soon stopped. One inteviewer even made a
complaint that the JC were wasting his time.

[Niteawk]

Post by Nomen Nescio
I am a long term Jsa receiver. This morning I had one of many 3 months
review assessments. The JC+ officer changed my jobsearch targets from
IT to warehouse work. I asked why and she said that I have no written
qualifications for that kind of work and I have been unemployed for
too long to justify that kind of jobsearch.
I replied that I don't have qualifications or work experience for
warehouse work either and she said that you don't need any experience
or qualification to work in a factory. I said that nowadays it's much
more difficult in this country to work in a factory than in IT because
the manufacturing industry is dead while office work is still
available, plus I have experience in IT though not recently.
She decided that she will suspend my claim until I change my mind plus
she called the security guard to evict me from the building (see post
2).

Have you changed your mind yet?

Post by Nomen Nescio
The question now is: what to do? Can I challenge this decision and how?

It seems to me they want you to agree to the changes to your Job search
agreement, although from what you say here, it does not look like you have
disagreed with them. I have had many sanctions but never a suspension so I
have not got a clue how a suspension works. Maybe its a polite way of
telling you to agree with them without actually stopping your money. As soon
as you agree payment continues as normal.

Post by Nomen Nescio
Do I have to wait till they call me to explain my reasons or should I
act now? I am at loss. Would I lose all my benefit or will it just be
suspended for some time? I think this is just intimidation. How do I
get round this? There's definitely no quick way to get into work in my
area, if I lose my benefit I'm done. Thanks

My initial thoughts on this are, only a decision maker can suspend or
sanction your benefit. You should have asked to speak to the manager when
the security was called, in fact as a rule always ask for the manager when a
staff member gets funny with you, that stops any little games they want to
play dead. Not to worry though, go to or phone the JC tomorrow and have a
word with the manager to find out what is going on, then come back and tell
me what they said.

[Nomen Nescio]

Post by Niteawk
My initial thoughts on this are, only a decision maker can suspend or
sanction your benefit. You should have asked to speak to the manager

when

Post by Niteawk
the security was called, in fact as a rule always ask for the

manager when a

Post by Niteawk
staff member gets funny with you, that stops any little games they

want to

Post by Niteawk
play dead. Not to worry though, go to or phone the JC tomorrow and

have a

Post by Niteawk
word with the manager to find out what is going on, then come back

and tell

Post by Niteawk
me what they said.

I asked to speak to the manager straight away but the bully security
guard wouldn't let me enter the building and he said that he wouldn't
call the manager because he was busy (probably bullying somebody else).

The day later I went to the JC floor and they suggested me to call the
JSA helpline who suggested me to send a statement to the main office
even before receiving a written confirmation of my suspension. I then
asked to speak to the manager in person, she came aftre a while and
said that the decision is not longer in their hands but the
undefined "decision maker" (God?). So I wrote this letter to the
regional office stating that the officer didn't gime time to explain
my reasons and I would have cooperated hadn't she called a security
guard. I didn't go too deep in the reasons why I didn't accept the
proposed changes but I plan to do so should they sanction or terminate
my claim.

[Niteawk]

Post by Niteawk

Post by Niteawk
My initial thoughts on this are, only a decision maker can suspend or
sanction your benefit. You should have asked to speak to the manager

when

Post by Niteawk
the security was called, in fact as a rule always ask for the

manager when a

Post by Niteawk
staff member gets funny with you, that stops any little games they

want to

Post by Niteawk
play dead. Not to worry though, go to or phone the JC tomorrow and

have a

Post by Niteawk
word with the manager to find out what is going on, then come back

and tell

Post by Niteawk
me what they said.

I asked to speak to the manager straight away but the bully security
guard wouldn't let me enter the building and he said that he wouldn't
call the manager because he was busy (probably bullying somebody else).
The day later I went to the JC floor and they suggested me to call the
JSA helpline who suggested me to send a statement to the main office
even before receiving a written confirmation of my suspension. I then
asked to speak to the manager in person, she came aftre a while and
said that the decision is not longer in their hands but the
undefined "decision maker" (God?). So I wrote this letter to the
regional office stating that the officer didn't gime time to explain
my reasons and I would have cooperated hadn't she called a security
guard. I didn't go too deep in the reasons why I didn't accept the
proposed changes but I plan to do so should they sanction or terminate
my claim.

Your defence is that you did not disagree with them, they did not explain
the review process properly. By asking a couple of innocent questions, they
used that as an excuse to say you disagreed with them. And if memory serves
me correct they are supposed to give you a reasonable time to consider any
changes they make. The key here is, by having you removed from the building,
they did not give a chance to agree with them. Had you been given the chance
to sign the JSAg, you would have done.

Your local CAB can advise and assist you with an appeal against this.
Depending on how long the sanction is, you may have to claim hardship
payments until it ends. But you should win on appeal because they did not
make it clear to you what the requirements are. Also you should complain to
your MP about this abrupt and harsh treatment.

What I would do as well is write a letter stating "I agreed with the
decision to change my JSAg on such and such a date, but I was not given the
chance to sign it at the interview due to a misunderstanding between me and
the officer" Then hand it to the manager, keep a copy and give a copy to the
CAB, it is always good to have an impartial third party looking out for your
interests when dealing with the JC. And it can be used in evidence at
tribunal. ;)

[Frank Merlott]

Post by Nomen Nescio
I replied that I don't have qualifications or work experience for
warehouse work either and she said that you don't need any experience
or qualification to work in a factory.

I would try and avoid arguments, the Jobcentre always wins, if you don't want
to find
a job in a warehouse then you don't find it.

If they send you to an interview for a job you don't want make sure they pay
for your fares
and then at the interview you just ask about trade union rights and sick days
benefits or alcohol
policy at the workplace.

Just because they put you down as something you don't want it does not mean you
will work
in that, it is up to you to decide when you go to the interview and not some
paperwork

Post by Nomen Nescio
She decided that she will suspend my claim until I change my mind plus
she called the security guard to evict me from the building (see post
2).

If I were you I would go back and tell her you just changed your mind, no
problem.

Post by Nomen Nescio
The question now is: what to do? Can I challenge this decision and how?

I think there is an internal procedure to do this but for what you said you
will be losing
the case, nothing to lose for trying, it's free.

Post by Nomen Nescio
Do I have to wait till they call me to explain my reasons or should I
act now? I am at loss. Would I lose all my benefit or will it just be
suspended for some time? I think this is just intimidation. How do I
get round this? There's definitely no quick way to get into work in my
area, if I lose my benefit I'm done. Thanks

IMO, You need to accept the offer the JobCentre made you, don't worry about
being forced into
warehouse work, make sure to go scruffy and smelly to the interview and
concentrate on your
IT jobsearch instead. You can still search IT work even if you are registered
as warehouse helper.

[Monty]

Post by Frank Merlott

Post by Nomen Nescio
I replied that I don't have qualifications or work experience for
warehouse work either and she said that you don't need any experience
or qualification to work in a factory.

I would try and avoid arguments, the Jobcentre always wins, if you don't want
to find
a job in a warehouse then you don't find it.
If they send you to an interview for a job you don't want make sure they pay
for your fares
and then at the interview you just ask about trade union rights and sick days
benefits or alcohol
policy at the workplace.

Don't forget loads of nose picking, coughing and scratching.

Post by Frank Merlott
Just because they put you down as something you don't want it does not mean you
will work
in that, it is up to you to decide when you go to the interview and not some
paperwork

Post by Nomen Nescio
She decided that she will suspend my claim until I change my mind plus
she called the security guard to evict me from the building (see post
2).

If I were you I would go back and tell her you just changed your mind, no
problem.

Post by Nomen Nescio
The question now is: what to do? Can I challenge this decision and how?

I think there is an internal procedure to do this but for what you said you
will be losing
the case, nothing to lose for trying, it's free.

Post by Nomen Nescio
Do I have to wait till they call me to explain my reasons or should I
act now? I am at loss. Would I lose all my benefit or will it just be
suspended for some time? I think this is just intimidation. How do I
get round this? There's definitely no quick way to get into work in my
area, if I lose my benefit I'm done. Thanks

IMO, You need to accept the offer the JobCentre made you, don't worry about
being forced into
warehouse work, make sure to go scruffy and smelly to the interview and
concentrate on your
IT jobsearch instead. You can still search IT work even if you are registered
as warehouse helper.

[Niteawk]

Post by Frank Merlott

Post by Nomen Nescio
I replied that I don't have qualifications or work experience for
warehouse work either and she said that you don't need any experience
or qualification to work in a factory.

I would try and avoid arguments, the Jobcentre always wins, if you don't want
to find
a job in a warehouse then you don't find it.
If they send you to an interview for a job you don't want make sure they pay
for your fares
and then at the interview you just ask about trade union rights and sick days
benefits or alcohol
policy at the workplace.
Just because they put you down as something you don't want it does not mean you
will work
in that, it is up to you to decide when you go to the interview and not some
paperwork

Post by Nomen Nescio
She decided that she will suspend my claim until I change my mind plus
she called the security guard to evict me from the building (see post
2).

If I were you I would go back and tell her you just changed your mind, no
problem.

Post by Nomen Nescio
The question now is: what to do? Can I challenge this decision and how?

I think there is an internal procedure to do this but for what you said you
will be losing
the case, nothing to lose for trying, it's free.

Post by Nomen Nescio
Do I have to wait till they call me to explain my reasons or should I
act now? I am at loss. Would I lose all my benefit or will it just be
suspended for some time? I think this is just intimidation. How do I
get round this? There's definitely no quick way to get into work in my
area, if I lose my benefit I'm done. Thanks

IMO, You need to accept the offer the JobCentre made you, don't worry about
being forced into

The JC does not make offers, they tell you what to do and if you try to
reason with them, they accuse you of refusing to accept the terms of the
agreement. We all know it is BS but that is how they operate. You think you
are having a friendly conversation as in the case of the OP, and you
innocently say I think I am not suitable for warehouse work, they will take
that comment and blow it out of all proportion to bring a case against you.

After my first sanction, I refused to speak to them except to yes or no
because they can use what you say as evidence against you, or what they
think you said as no actual recording takes place, it is their word against
yours. When pushed to explain in more detail what I was doing to look for
work, I handed them my job search booklet. But be careful when playing them
at their own game not to cross the line, you do not want to give them a
genuine reason to sanction you.
In my case I provided them with the details they required as per my JSAg,
there was no requirement in my JSAg to submit to interrogation as well as
providing evidence of my job search. ;)

[Fritz Wuehler]

Post by Niteawk
Your defence is that you did not disagree with them

I actually said to the officer that I disagreed with her

Post by Niteawk
they did not explain
the review process properly.

That's the point. She said she would suspend my claim after I said I
disagreed and she didn't give me time to change my mind by callig the
security guard. Then she made me sign something which I understood
lated if was me signing off, although at the time I didn't know it was
me signign off and to be honest I don't know what I have signed, this
was just a couple of seconds before being escorted out. The security
guard admitted to me he didn't know why he escorted me out.

Post by Niteawk
By asking a couple of innocent questions, they
used that as an excuse to say you disagreed with them. And if memory

serves

Post by Niteawk
me correct they are supposed to give you a reasonable time to

consider any

Post by Niteawk
changes they make. The key here is, by having you removed from the

building,

Post by Niteawk
they did not give a chance to agree with them. Had you been given

the chance

Post by Niteawk
to sign the JSAg, you would have done.

Almost, given the time I would have understood I was going to lose my
claim and I would have signed.

Post by Niteawk
Your local CAB can advise and assist you with an appeal against this.

My local CAB is rubbish and they have never helped anyone in this
area, but I have used somewhere else in the country and it was
allright.

Post by Niteawk
Depending on how long the sanction is, you may have to claim hardship
payments until it ends. But you should win on appeal because they

did not

Post by Niteawk
make it clear to you what the requirements are. Also you should

complain to

Post by Niteawk
your MP about this abrupt and harsh treatment.

Local MP is a radical tory and hates the "benefit scroungers "

Post by Niteawk
What I would do as well is write a letter stating "I agreed with the
decision to change my JSAg on such and such a date, but I was not

given the

Post by Niteawk
chance to sign it at the interview due to a misunderstanding between

me and

Post by Niteawk
the officer"

I have sent a letter stating that after being told that if I didn't
sign the agreement my claim would be suspended, I tried to have a
dialogue with the officer but a security guard escorted me out and had
she came the point earlier I am sure we would have found an agreement.

[Niteawk]

Post by Fritz Wuehler

Post by Niteawk
Your defence is that you did not disagree with them

I actually said to the officer that I disagreed with her

This is a perfect example of taking a comment out of context, the OP
disagreed with the idea of warehouse work on the basis it might not be the
best choice. That is not the same as refusing to sign a JSAg which is the
reason for the suspension.

[Nomen Nescio]

Post by Niteawk
in

messagenews:***@msgid.frell.theremailer.ne
t...

Post by Niteawk

Post by Fritz Wuehler

Post by Niteawk
Your defence is that you did not disagree with them

I actually said to the officer that I disagreed with her

This is a perfect example of taking a comment out of context, the OP
disagreed with the idea of warehouse work on the basis it might not

be the

Post by Niteawk
best choice. That is not the same as refusing to sign a JSAg which

is the

Post by Niteawk
reason for the suspension.

Sorry Niteawk, it's my fault. I have used a different remailer when
replying.

Nomen Nescio and Fritz Wueler are two remailers. I try to protect my
anonimity. Walls have ears!