A4e Day 1, week 2 of 2. Gateway to hell.

Post by Niteawk
Phoned in sick, organiser says "come in tomorrow or *they* will stop
your money" "you will be off the course and sanctioned". What he means
is, *he* will put me off the course.
This is how they threaten people to make them comply.
They are threatening the wrong man. Looks like its off to Tribunal
Service if that happens.
Meanwhile I will claim Hardship payment. Go to the GP to get signed off
sick. Complain to my useless MP. Probably send a complaint to Purnell.
Once again I have been cut some slack, as long as I attend tomorrow, all
is well.
I get the feeling that A4e are trying to avoid kicking people off their
course.
I expected to get kicked off, no, I demand to be kicked off. :)

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?

Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?

Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.

--
Robbie

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-23 12:39:01 UTC

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hmmm......don't they have some scheme in America where there's a time
limit that unemployment can be paid for?
We are a different society - thats both good and bad. Government can
still screw around with benefits.

Martin <><

Robbie

2009-02-23 13:28:13 UTC

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

In the US there is a 5 years in a lifetime limit on claiming welfare
though there are provisions to extend that in limited circumstances. By
welfare I mean their benefit of last resort. there's no 5 year limit on
unemployment benefit though each period of claim is only for about 6
months. A person who has passed their 5 year lifetime limit on welfare
would then get nothing once the unemployment insurance runs out.

--
Robbie

g***@googlemail.com

2009-02-24 08:24:11 UTC

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

The US is hardly a model we should look to.

Niteawk

2009-02-24 13:24:14 UTC

<***@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:6179bd91-78f2-4783-b0c7-

Post by g***@googlemail.com
The US is hardly a model we should look to.

I agree, but if you compare the two systems.

The 5 year limit might be a bit harsh, in the US they have real jobs to
offer, so they make sure there is an alternative to benefit. They dont just
kick people off the dole and leave them with no money to live on.

The aim of the UK system is to make life intolerable, there are no paid jobs
on offer, and you are forced to attend training courses that have no
training element in them, its called training to get round the law to
justify holding you prisoner. After 12 months of New Deal provisions, all
you get out of it is another CV to add to the pile.

That makes the UK system worse than the US IMO.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-24 20:57:46 UTC

Post by Niteawk
news:6179bd91-78f2-4783-b0c7-

Post by g***@googlemail.com
The US is hardly a model we should look to.

I agree, but if you compare the two systems.
The 5 year limit might be a bit harsh, in the US they have real jobs to
offer, so they make sure there is an alternative to benefit. They dont just
kick people off the dole and leave them with no money to live on.
The aim of the UK system is to make life intolerable, there are no paid jobs
on offer, and you are forced to attend training courses that have no
training element in them, its called training to get round the law to
justify holding you prisoner. After 12 months of New Deal provisions, all
you get out of it is another CV to add to the pile.
That makes the UK system worse than the US IMO.

No paid jobs?
Darn - was in Machester earlier today, saw several jobs advertised in
company windows (for that company), saw many more in agency windows.
If your area has no jobs, have you considered moving to Manchester?
They do have jobs there. Though you may not like the wages.

Martin <><

Dimona

2009-02-24 21:48:47 UTC

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Darn - was in Machester earlier today, saw several jobs advertised in
company windows (for that company), saw many more in agency windows.
If your area has no jobs, have you considered moving to Manchester?
They do have jobs there. Though you may not like the wages.

I certainly wouldn't work for the same amount of money I am getting on
the dole, anyone thinking that will happen is living on cuckoo land.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-24 22:00:32 UTC

I certainly wouldn't work for the same amount of money I am getting on
the dole, anyone thinking that will happen is living on cuckoo land.

OK, so you want to work for more than £60 odd a week. Thats
understandable.
Most jobs will pay more than that.

Martin <><

Dimona

2009-02-25 04:01:42 UTC

I certainly wouldn't work for the same amount of money I am getting on
the dole, anyone thinking that will happen is living on cuckoo land.

OK, so you want to work for more than £60 odd a week. Thats
understandable.
Most jobs will pay more than that.

Wrong, you obviously have not been on benefits.

That is £60 a week, plus £130 housing benefit a week = £160 week

And then some added bonuses, I get my free dental check up every 6
months (worth £20), my free optician check up every two years plus a
free voucher to buy glasses (total value around £60), New Deal card for
cheap transport (three months only), got a cheap £30 mobile phone and a
suit (£120 voucher) from WorkingLinks at Great Portland St. when I was
with them.

I will take a job for £220 a week gross, that is around £180 after tax
I think, less than that is like having to work 40 hours a week for
nothing.

Dimona

2009-02-25 04:07:02 UTC

Forgot to mention the free medical prescriptions and not having to pay
council tax...

I've done my numbers and £220 is an absolute minimum, not even sure if
I would take it for a job that damages your health, like somewhere you
have to bend down and lift heavy weights all day.

Niteawk

2009-02-25 11:41:20 UTC

Post by Dimona
Forgot to mention the free medical prescriptions and not having to pay
council tax...
I've done my numbers and £220 is an absolute minimum,

Still less than benefits.

You need a job that pays £350 per week after deductions, thats what the
average wage should be given the cost of living today.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-25 13:46:25 UTC

Post by Dimona
Forgot to mention the free medical prescriptions and not having to pay
council tax...
I've done my numbers and £220 is an absolute minimum,

Still less than benefits.
You need a job that pays £350 per week after deductions, thats what the
average wage should be given the cost of living today.

Average wage as I recall is more than that.
But note the term average. Means some will be on more, some less. Some
a lot more, some a lot less.
Do skilled work, get higher pay. Do unskilled work.......

Martin <><

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-25 10:42:15 UTC

I certainly wouldn't work for the same amount of money I am getting on
the dole, anyone thinking that will happen is living on cuckoo land.

OK, so you want to work for more than £60 odd a week. Thats
understandable.
Most jobs will pay more than that.

Wrong, you obviously have not been on benefits.
That is £60 a week, plus £130 housing benefit a week = £160 week
And then some added bonuses, I get my free dental check up every 6
months (worth £20), my free optician check up every two years plus a
free voucher to buy glasses (total value around £60), New Deal card for
cheap transport (three months only), got a cheap £30 mobile phone and a
suit (£120 voucher) from WorkingLinks at Great Portland St. when I was
with them.
I will take a job for £220 a week gross, that is around £180 after tax
I think, less than that is like having to work 40 hours a week for
nothing.

You said money.
Not other help.

The other help adds up, though some is available when not on benefits
too. Dependant on income.
I've had council tax benefit in the past while working full time. On
too much income to qualify now. :)

£220 gross a week is £11,440. Is working tax credit payable on that,
does someone know offhand?
£220 gross is also just over 38 hours a week at NMW.

Plenty of jobs I saw yesterday would meet your requirement. Sure there
aren't any in your area?

Martin <><

Niteawk

2009-02-25 11:35:15 UTC

I certainly wouldn't work for the same amount of money I am getting on
the dole, anyone thinking that will happen is living on cuckoo land.

OK, so you want to work for more than £60 odd a week. Thats
understandable.
Most jobs will pay more than that.

Wrong, you obviously have not been on benefits.
That is £60 a week, plus £130 housing benefit a week = £160 week

60 + 130 = 190

Post by Dimona
And then some added bonuses, I get my free dental check up every 6 months
(worth £20), my free optician check up every two years plus a free voucher
to buy glasses (total value around £60), New Deal card for cheap transport
(three months only), got a cheap £30 mobile phone and a suit (£120
voucher) from WorkingLinks at Great Portland St. when I was with them.
I will take a job for £220 a week gross, that is around £180 after tax I
think, less than that is like having to work 40 hours a week for nothing.

So you will work for less than benefits.

Dimona

2009-02-25 16:34:16 UTC

Post by Dimona
I will take a job for £220 a week gross, that is around £180 after tax I
think, less than that is like having to work 40 hours a week for nothing.

So you will work for less than benefits.

You are quite right...I made a mistake with my numbers... 30+160=£190

To get £190 net, I think I need around £250 gross, and I would not work
for the same amount I am getting now, £350 is probably the minimum wage
someone on the dole should accept given the cost of life in London.

I have worked in the pass and I know that you get stress and some jobs,
like filling shelves at the supermarket, are even bad for your back.

My focus now is on getting free training from the Jobcentre so my
career prospects have some chance. So far A4e and Working Links have
let me down, their training is non existant and they have no interest
whatsoever in getting you a proper job.

If I wanted to work at Tesco as they prettend I would already be there
anyway, I dont need their help for that.

g***@googlemail.com

2009-02-25 19:04:27 UTC

Working Links are utter crap. In the end for all this talk of helping
people back to work and compulsory schemes, the amount of time you are
given with them is no more than a couple of hours in total. Complete
joke.

Niteawk

2009-02-25 19:32:11 UTC

Post by Dimona
I will take a job for £220 a week gross, that is around £180 after tax I
think, less than that is like having to work 40 hours a week for nothing.

So you will work for less than benefits.

Dont forget that you have to pay CT and travel costs out of that, plus you
spend more when working, not everyone brings sandwiches to work.

350 take home is not a great amount these days, the cost of a McDonalds is
over 4 quid, chicken with salsa, banana milk shake and fries, fkin hell. And
your are hungry 5 minuts later. Some people need cars, I wont even factor in
the cost for that basic necessity. A pint of beer or two, tiddles needs to
go to the vets, kids need shoes which are the same price as adults, just
some of the costs associated with trying to live.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-25 20:39:17 UTC

Post by Dimona
I will take a job for £220 a week gross, that is around £180 after tax I
think, less than that is like having to work 40 hours a week for nothing.

So you will work for less than benefits.

Dont forget that you have to pay CT and travel costs out of that, plus you
spend more when working, not everyone brings sandwiches to work.
350 take home is not a great amount these days, the cost of a McDonalds is
over 4 quid, chicken with salsa, banana milk shake and fries, fkin hell. And
your are hungry 5 minuts later. Some people need cars, I wont even factor in
the cost for that basic necessity. A pint of beer or two, tiddles needs to
go to the vets, kids need shoes which are the same price as adults, just
some of the costs associated with trying to live.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

350 take home is quite a bit more than I take home.
Then again, despite my village having a McDonalds, I don't eat there
regularly. Maybe once or twice a year.
Some of us get better value by cooking meals.

Cars aren't that bad to run. And once you have one, you find it very
convenient. :)
Then again, not essential for everyone.

Whats the minimum someone needs to live. A place to live, food,
clothing and travel. If its possible on £60 odd a week plus extras, is
£350 take home realistic as a replacement?

Martin <><

Niteawk

2009-02-25 22:10:46 UTC

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Whats the minimum someone needs to live. A place to live, food,
clothing and travel. If its possible on £60 odd a week plus extras, is
£350 take home realistic as a replacement?

Live or exist? You can exist on bread and water. If you want to live, you
need money to spend on holidays, get on the housing ladder, and have some
quality of life. 350 is realistic and it will still take you a few years to
save up a deposit for a house, to buy a good car or to rent a half decent
house or flat.

It is possible to exist on 60 odd a week, but thats not living. Working for
NMW does very little to improve the situation. All it does is keep you
benefits.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-26 07:13:35 UTC

Live or exist? You can exist on bread and water. If you want to live, you
need money to spend on holidays, get on the housing ladder, and have some
quality of life. 350 is realistic and it will still take you a few years to
save up a deposit for a house, to buy a good car or to rent a half decent
house or flat.
It is possible to exist on 60 odd a week, but thats not living. Working for
NMW does very little to improve the situation. All it does is keep you
benefits.

Niteawk

2009-02-26 09:50:57 UTC

Live or exist? You can exist on bread and water. If you want to live, you
need money to spend on holidays, get on the housing ladder, and have some
quality of life. 350 is realistic and it will still take you a few years to
save up a deposit for a house, to buy a good car or to rent a half decent
house or flat.
It is possible to exist on 60 odd a week, but thats not living. Working for
NMW does very little to improve the situation. All it does is keep you
benefits.

Live.
I can't say I've met many on benefits who limit themselves to bread &
water.
Not sure about the housing ladder bit - would take quite a bit of
saving to do that, likely quite a bit more than that £350 net.
Holidays? Been cheap for a few years now. I've known many people go
abroad for just a few hundred quid including spending money. Can be
cheaper to take a week abroad than in Britain.

Ah, I see what you are getting at now. You want decent stuff - decent
car, decent property and so on.
Nothing to do with living, its to do with meeting your requirements
for status too. Are you sure £350 net a week can manage that?

Martin <><

Yes, 350 should afford you some quality of life, nothing extravagant. The
bare essentials and a few quid to spend. I know you can buy a car for 50
quid, forget about MOT, tax and insurance. Share a room in a council semi,
thats about all your NMW earner can afford, which is not living IMO, all you
are doing is scraping by. Barely existing from day to day as you do on the
dole.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-26 10:28:35 UTC

Live or exist? You can exist on bread and water. If you want to live, you
need money to spend on holidays, get on the housing ladder, and have some
quality of life. 350 is realistic and it will still take you a few years to
save up a deposit for a house, to buy a good car or to rent a half decent
house or flat.
It is possible to exist on 60 odd a week, but thats not living. Working for
NMW does very little to improve the situation. All it does is keep you
benefits.

Live.
I can't say I've met many on benefits who limit themselves to bread &
water.
Not sure about the housing ladder bit - would take quite a bit of
saving to do that, likely quite a bit more than that £350 net.
Holidays? Been cheap for a few years now. I've known many people go
abroad for just a few hundred quid including spending money. Can be
cheaper to take a week abroad than in Britain.
Ah, I see what you are getting at now. You want decent stuff - decent
car, decent property and so on.
Nothing to do with living, its to do with meeting your requirements
for status too. Are you sure £350 net a week can manage that?
Martin <><
Yes, 350 should afford you some quality of life, nothing extravagant. The
bare essentials and a few quid to spend. I know you can buy a car for 50
quid, forget about MOT, tax and insurance. Share a room in a council semi,
thats about all your NMW earner can afford, which is not living IMO, all you
are doing is scraping by. Barely existing from day to day as you do on the
dole.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Ah yes, back when I was on a lot less than NMW I merely lived in a 3
bed semi, drove a 4 year old car with fully comp insurance and went on
merely one holiday a year. Now I merely have 2 holidays a year, own a
9 year old car, live in the same house as before, plus work pays for
training courses in strange, interesting places with lovely shops and
activities.
Oh, and I'm saving plenty. On a lot less than £350 a week net.

Martin <><

jayne collins

2010-06-04 11:43:42 UTC

hi , i would just like to say that both my husband and i have been
unemployed for over a yr ,as our business collapsed and we had to claim
benefits my husband is currently on an acs course where hes supposed to be
learning english and maths to better himself in order to get a job ,he was
forced to go on this course against his will and all he has been doing on
the course is watching dvds, drawing pictures,twiddling his thumbs as there
is nobody teaching him anything ,just bums on seats to make up numbers so
that the company gets paid every week. he was promised one to one training
help with a better cv ,still waiting for that after 2 mths of attendance .my
husband really does want a job and certainly isnt a scrounger or layabout
and i'm afraid the people who say that have no idea what they are talking
about and certainly dont know what its like to be humiliated and degraded by
these people who call themselves professionals and have NO intention of
helping anyone

url:http://myreader.co.uk/msg/13973215.aspx

Bill

2010-06-05 21:36:58 UTC

Post by jayne collins
hi , i would just like to say that both my husband and i have been
unemployed for over a yr ,as our business collapsed and we had to claim
benefits my husband is currently on an acs course where hes supposed to be
learning english and maths to better himself in order to get a job ,he was
forced to go on this course against his will and all he has been doing on
the course is watching dvds, drawing pictures,twiddling his thumbs as there
is nobody teaching him anything ,just bums on seats to make up numbers so
that the company gets paid every week. he was promised one to one training
help with a better cv ,still waiting for that after 2 mths of attendance .my
husband really does want a job and certainly isnt a scrounger or layabout
and i'm afraid the people who say that have no idea what they are talking
about and certainly dont know what its like to be humiliated and degraded by
these people who call themselves professionals and have NO intention of
helping anyone
url:http://myreader.co.uk/msg/13973215.aspx

Have you considered an English course to help you learn a little about
sentence construction and punctuation?

Niteawk

2010-06-07 13:00:19 UTC

Post by Bill

Have you considered an English course to help you learn a little about
sentence construction and punctuation?

Take your head out of your ass Bill, I think you need a spell in one of our
A4e academies for bullshit to open your eyes to the standard of non
education that working class people are forced to endure so public school
cunts can get paid millions of pounds for doing nothing as usual.

Mike

2010-06-08 17:37:53 UTC

Post by Bill

Have you considered an English course to help you learn a little about
sentence construction and punctuation?

Take your head out of your ass Bill, I think you need a spell in one of
our A4e academies for bullshit to open your eyes to the standard of non
education that working class people are forced to endure so public
school cunts can get paid millions of pounds for doing nothing as usual.

Seemed a very valid comment, as the post he was refering to was barely
english. Few employers would give an application with that standard of
english a second glance.

Mike

Niteawk

2010-06-08 20:55:53 UTC

Have you considered an English course to help you learn a little about
sentence construction and punctuation?

Take your head out of your ass Bill, I think you need a spell in one of
our A4e academies for bullshit to open your eyes to the standard of non
education that working class people are forced to endure so public
school cunts can get paid millions of pounds for doing nothing as usual.

Seemed a very valid comment, as the post he was refering to was barely
english. Few employers would give an application with that standard of
english a second glance.

Valid in what way? highlighting the abysmal standards of education in the
UK! I have to agree then.

Mike

2010-06-10 19:28:27 UTC

Post by jayne collins
hi , i would just like to say that both my husband and i have been
unemployed for over a yr ,as our business collapsed and we had to claim
benefits my husband is currently on an acs course where hes supposed to be
learning english and maths to better himself in order to get a job ,he was
forced to go on this course against his will and all he has been doing on
the course is watching dvds, drawing pictures,twiddling his thumbs as there
is nobody teaching him anything ,just bums on seats to make up numbers so
that the company gets paid every week. he was promised one to one training
help with a better cv ,still waiting for that after 2 mths of attendance .my
husband really does want a job and certainly isnt a scrounger or layabout
and i'm afraid the people who say that have no idea what they are talking
about and certainly dont know what its like to be humiliated and degraded by
these people who call themselves professionals and have NO
intention of
helping anyone
url:http://myreader.co.uk/msg/13973215.aspx

Have you considered an English course to help you learn a little about
sentence construction and punctuation?

Take your head out of your ass Bill, I think you need a spell in one of
our A4e academies for bullshit to open your eyes to the standard of non
education that working class people are forced to endure so public
school cunts can get paid millions of pounds for doing nothing as usual.

Seemed a very valid comment, as the post he was refering to was barely
english. Few employers would give an application with that standard of
english a second glance.

Valid in what way? highlighting the abysmal standards of education in
the UK! I have to agree then.

<Falls of chair in a amazement>
<get's back on chair>

Whilst the clearly appalling standard of english is abysmal it may not
be a reflection of the posters education, many people are just plain
lazy with e mail etc.

Mike

nonanon

2010-06-11 10:16:07 UTC

On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 20:28:27 +0100, Mike wrote:

[snip]

Post by Mike
<Falls of chair in a amazement>

off

Post by Mike
<get's back on chair>

gets

Post by Mike
Whilst the clearly appalling standard of english

English

Post by Mike
is abysmal it may not
be a reflection of the posters

poster's

Post by Mike
education, many people are just plain
lazy with e mail etc.
Mike

I really hope you were being funny.

m***@hotmail.com

2010-06-11 11:04:58 UTC

Post by nonanon
[snip]

Post by Mike
<Falls of chair in a amazement>

off

Post by Mike
<get's back on chair>

gets

Post by Mike
Whilst the clearly appalling standard of english

English

Post by Mike
is abysmal it may not
be a reflection of the posters

poster's

Post by Mike
education, many people are just plain
lazy with e mail etc.
Mike

I really hope you were being funny.

Well I found it amusing anyway.

I don't care about 'correct' use of language so long as it is readable
and conveys information accurately.

Martin <><

Harry Stottle

2010-06-10 08:03:36 UTC

Post by Mike

Post by Niteawk
Take your head out of your ass Bill, I think you need a spell in one of
our A4e academies for bullshit to open your eyes to the standard of non
education that working class people are forced to endure so public
school cunts can get paid millions of pounds for doing nothing as usual.

Seemed a very valid comment, as the post he was refering to was barely
english. Few employers would give an application with that standard of
english a second glance.

Shouldn't English be capitalised?
;-)
Checks previous line several times for spelling mistakes.
:-)

Bill

2010-06-15 18:28:20 UTC

Post by Bill

Have you considered an English course to help you learn a little about
sentence construction and punctuation?

Take your head out of your ass Bill, I think you need a spell in one of
our A4e academies for bullshit to open your eyes to the standard of non
education that working class people are forced to endure so public school
cunts can get paid millions of pounds for doing nothing as usual.

I went to an approved school for 3 years. My education effectively ended
when I was 12 years old as we were used as slave labour on the school farm.
I left the Approved School in 1963 hardly able to write my own name in
joined up letters. We didn't have do gooders falling over themselves to
help us in those days, we had to make the best of what we had. I have
educated myself by reading and practicing. I am still weak in many areas
but I can string a sentence together that makes sense. I think my head is
well out of my arse. I see things very clearly.

I disagree about education. The opportunities for kids are there in school,
just that many of them are too damn stupid to take advantage of those
opportunities and so end up on the scrap heap, blaming every one else but
themselves. I have two daughters, bought up in poverty because of my
stupidity as a youth. We lived on council sink estates and the girls went
to the local comprehensive. One went onto Cambridge and is now a senior
teacher in a High School, and the other did a degree whilst bringing up 3
kids after her husband left her, and is now doing nurse training.

Don't talk to me about non education., I've been there, done it and got the
tee shirt. I agree with you about A4E, but it's no good blaming the system
for everything without accepting some personal responsibility for your (I
don't mean you personally) own circumstances and how to get out of it.

Niteawk

2009-02-23 13:49:20 UTC

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Yes, there is. Its actually a proper scheme that gets people into real paid
jobs. After 6 months on the dole, they are given a choice of 3 or 4 minimum
wage jobs to choose from, one of which they must take. In stark contrast to
our lunatic system, no real jobs to offer so they send you to some
cheapskate company like McDonalds to work for fuck all. Either that or a
charity. Meanwhile they expect to keep you in a room for 5 days a week doing
nothing.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-23 13:59:07 UTC

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Oh sorry, I thought you didn't like minimum wage jobs.

Martin <><

Niteawk

2009-02-23 14:18:27 UTC

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Oh sorry, I thought you didn't like minimum wage jobs.

Our MW jobs are below living costs, in the USA, they can afford to live on
MW. $7.00 an hour is not bad when you consider the cost of living in the USA
compared to the UK.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-23 15:16:30 UTC

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Oh sorry, I thought you didn't like minimum wage jobs.

Our MW jobs are below living costs, in the USA, they can afford to live on
MW. $7.00 an hour is not bad when you consider the cost of living in the USA
compared to the UK.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Funny really, before NMW came in, we had jobs below that level and
people still lived.
Now we have NMW, people on it can still live.
We do however have tax credits, housing benefit, council tax benefit
and so on. Help that isn't always available in quite the same way
elsewhere.

Cost of living is different there. And so long as you never get sick,
never have a child become ill, can be cheaper to live there. Lower
income, lower prices (for some things).

Martin <><

g***@googlemail.com

2009-02-24 08:28:33 UTC

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Funny really, before NMW came in, we had jobs below that level and
people still lived.

People also had hardship. People also struggled to get by.

I think it's only right and proper that all employers pay (compulsion
by law shouldn't even be an issue) a proper fair decent wage that
people can comfortably and happily live on. If they can't manage that
they have no business as an employer.

Post by m***@hotmail.com
We do however have tax credits, housing benefit, council tax benefit
and so on. Help that isn't always available in quite the same way
elsewhere.

All of which are a replacement for the one thing peopel desperately
need: a proper wage.

Credit is the reason for the problems we are having right now. People
are now earning less than they did 35 years ago.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-24 20:43:03 UTC

Post by g***@googlemail.com

Post by m***@hotmail.com
Funny really, before NMW came in, we had jobs below that level and
people still lived.

People also had hardship. People also struggled to get by.
I think it's only right and proper that all employers pay (compulsion
by law shouldn't even be an issue) a proper fair decent wage that
people can comfortably and happily live on. If they can't manage that
they have no business as an employer.

Post by m***@hotmail.com
We do however have tax credits, housing benefit, council tax benefit
and so on. Help that isn't always available in quite the same way
elsewhere.

All of which are a replacement for the one thing peopel desperately
need: a proper wage.
Credit is the reason for the problems we are having right now. People
are now earning less than they did 35 years ago.

Compulsion by law is the only way to make the market behave a certain
way. Before NMW we had jobs with lower wages. Afterwards we had
employers who could be prosecuted for failing to pay at least that
much.

As to what an employer should pay as a proper fair decent wage, thats
more open to question, especially for unskilled or semi skilled jobs.
The skilled jobs, employers will pay market wages anyway in order to
attract and retain staff.

Employers also have a requirement to keep costs down in order to be
able to provide their product competitively. Paying all staff at least
£10 an hour might be a good idea, but if it makes the product too
expensive to sell then they won't stay in business.
They don't currently have any requirement to pay a living wage beyond
what is required by legislation. Plus employers NI, which is currently
12.8% over £105 a week. Add to the wages, add to the NI (and employee
would pay more NI & tax themselves).

So what is a proper wage? What do you require as a minimum compared to
others?
I hesitate myself to suggest a figure as my situation is distorted
anyway. I can live on my income but it isn't subject to compulsion on
level.

Oh, and you are right about credit. Unfortunately it may end up having
to be a solution too - government using its credit, credit to
businesses to keep them afloat (banks anyway, if not car and van
makers), and credit to people in terms of something other than a 2.5%
VAT cut (which was a loan to be paid back starting in 2011 with
increased employer and employee NI).
Next budget is 22nd April - likely the last one implemented before the
next election. Read it when its published - it can have the capacity
to help or hinder.

Martin <><

Fedup

2009-02-23 17:19:32 UTC

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Hmmm......don't they have some scheme in America where there's a time
limit that unemployment can be paid for?

Yes.
They also have a lot more people in prison

Post by m***@hotmail.com
We are a different society - thats both good and bad. Government can
still screw around with benefits.

I'm waiting for cannibalism to break out

Niteawk

2009-02-23 13:49:14 UTC

Post by Niteawk
Phoned in sick, organiser says "come in tomorrow or *they* will stop your
money" "you will be off the course and sanctioned". What he means is,
*he* will put me off the course.
This is how they threaten people to make them comply.
They are threatening the wrong man. Looks like its off to Tribunal
Service if that happens.
Meanwhile I will claim Hardship payment. Go to the GP to get signed off
sick. Complain to my useless MP. Probably send a complaint to Purnell.
Once again I have been cut some slack, as long as I attend tomorrow, all
is well.
I get the feeling that A4e are trying to avoid kicking people off their
course.
I expected to get kicked off, no, I demand to be kicked off. :)

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry on.
Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you have to
wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?

So what, no pain, no gain, unlike the whingers who say they have to attend
and do nothing about it, at least I am prepared to do something about it.

Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach pension
age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with sanctions
instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?

There are not enough jobs to employ everyone. Why should I sit back and let
them get away with wasting my time. If I must waste time, then it will be
partly on my terms. Is it any wonder why people like me cant get a job when
all my time is taken up attending useless courses. Going to tribunals,
claiming HS payment, going to see my GP, writing to MP's. Thanks to them I
will have no time left to look for any work.

Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who have
been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time.

You're just milking the system dry and should be

forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.

I am using the same system as they are, the thing is those assholes dont
like it if you use the law as laid down by them. Why is that? what the fuck
is their problem with people like me using rules and regulations which they
say I am entitled to use. They seem to get very irate when they cant starve
people like me into submission.

They have the same attitude as you. They want people off the dole but they
do not have enough jobs to provide the means for them to get off the dole.
So they resort to using mindless schemes to do their heads in. If you think
that is reasonable, then you are a bigger cunt than they are.

If I am not happy with a decision, remember that. Thats what they say, if I
am not happy. And no, I am not happy with what they are doing so I will
follow their appeals process to let them know that.

Robbie

2009-02-23 17:05:53 UTC

Post by Niteawk
Phoned in sick, organiser says "come in tomorrow or *they* will stop
your money" "you will be off the course and sanctioned". What he
means is, *he* will put me off the course.
This is how they threaten people to make them comply.
They are threatening the wrong man. Looks like its off to Tribunal
Service if that happens.
Meanwhile I will claim Hardship payment. Go to the GP to get signed
off sick. Complain to my useless MP. Probably send a complaint to
Purnell.
Once again I have been cut some slack, as long as I attend tomorrow,
all is well.
I get the feeling that A4e are trying to avoid kicking people off
their course.
I expected to get kicked off, no, I demand to be kicked off. :)

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?

So what, no pain, no gain, unlike the whingers who say they have to
attend and do nothing about it, at least I am prepared to do something
about it.

Yeah, you do something by making trouble for yourself. You would
probably be no good in work anyway, the minute you are asked to do
something you didn't really want to you'd probably take a day off work
and end up sacked.

Post by Robbie
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to
keep getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened
with sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish
behind you?

There are not enough jobs to employ everyone. Why should I sit back and
let them get away with wasting my time. If I must waste time, then it
will be partly on my terms. Is it any wonder why people like me cant get
a job when all my time is taken up attending useless courses. Going to
tribunals, claiming HS payment, going to see my GP, writing to MP's.
Thanks to them I will have no time left to look for any work.

yet you'll have enough time to nick off to France to buy your cigs and
beer? You talk rubbish at times. You're on this "course" because you've
had long enough to find work and haven't really bothered. The fact is,
you probably make enough money doing baccy runs for cash in hand or
something.

Post by Robbie
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than
a certain amount of time.

You're just milking the system dry and should be

Post by Robbie
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.

They are allowed to use the rules too and sanction you.

Post by Niteawk
They have the same attitude as you. They want people off the dole but
they do not have enough jobs to provide the means for them to get off
the dole. So they resort to using mindless schemes to do their heads in.
If you think that is reasonable, then you are a bigger cunt than they are.

You're the cunt. A very lazy one. You've been out of work for so long
you think everyone owes you a living. There's been plenty of jobs over
the past few years tey you've still not managed to get one. When did you
last work?

Post by Niteawk
If I am not happy with a decision, remember that. Thats what they say,
if I am not happy. And no, I am not happy with what they are doing so I
will follow their appeals process to let them know that.

You haven't been there 5 minutes, you're just a trouble maker who will
go to the ends of the earth to avoid working - quite a job in itself!

--
Robbie

Niteawk

2009-02-24 00:28:55 UTC

Post by Niteawk
Phoned in sick, organiser says "come in tomorrow or *they* will stop
your money" "you will be off the course and sanctioned". What he means
is, *he* will put me off the course.
This is how they threaten people to make them comply.
They are threatening the wrong man. Looks like its off to Tribunal
Service if that happens.
Meanwhile I will claim Hardship payment. Go to the GP to get signed off
sick. Complain to my useless MP. Probably send a complaint to Purnell.
Once again I have been cut some slack, as long as I attend tomorrow,
all is well.
I get the feeling that A4e are trying to avoid kicking people off their
course.
I expected to get kicked off, no, I demand to be kicked off. :)

well, if you're happy to have your money fucked about with then carry
on. Have you been sanctioned in the past 12 months? If so, don't you
have to wait 2 weeks before you even get a hardship payment?

So what, no pain, no gain, unlike the whingers who say they have to
attend and do nothing about it, at least I am prepared to do something
about it.

Yeah, you do something by making trouble for yourself. You would probably
be no good in work anyway, the minute you are asked to do something you
didn't really want to you'd probably take a day off work and end up
sacked.

Bullshit.

Post by Robbie
Even so, it shows that you can't even make an effort to turn up to keep
getting your money. Is this how you see your life until you reach
pension age? Farting about with daft schemes and getting threatened with
sanctions instead of getting a job and putting all this rubbish behind you?

There are not enough jobs to employ everyone. Why should I sit back and
let them get away with wasting my time. If I must waste time, then it
will be partly on my terms. Is it any wonder why people like me cant get
a job when all my time is taken up attending useless courses. Going to
tribunals, claiming HS payment, going to see my GP, writing to MP's.
Thanks to them I will have no time left to look for any work.

yet you'll have enough time to nick off to France to buy your cigs and
beer? You talk rubbish at times. You're on this "course" because you've
had long enough to find work and haven't really bothered. The fact is, you
probably make enough money doing baccy runs for cash in hand or something.

More bullshit.

Post by Robbie
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time.

You're just milking the system dry and should be

Post by Robbie
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.

They are allowed to use the rules too and sanction you.

Post by Niteawk
They have the same attitude as you. They want people off the dole but
they do not have enough jobs to provide the means for them to get off the
dole. So they resort to using mindless schemes to do their heads in. If
you think that is reasonable, then you are a bigger cunt than they are.

You're the cunt. A very lazy one. You've been out of work for so long you
think everyone owes you a living. There's been plenty of jobs over the
past few years tey you've still not managed to get one. When did you last
work?

Even more bullshit.

Post by Niteawk
If I am not happy with a decision, remember that. Thats what they say, if
I am not happy. And no, I am not happy with what they are doing so I will
follow their appeals process to let them know that.

You haven't been there 5 minutes, you're just a trouble maker who will go
to the ends of the earth to avoid working - quite a job in itself!

I dont think I have ever seen so much bullshit in one post. You think its ok
to threaten and abuse people for being unemployed, take their freedom away,
leave them with no money for food, you are seriously gone in the head.

g***@googlemail.com

2009-02-24 08:32:21 UTC

Post by Robbie
You're the cunt. A very lazy one. You've been out of work for so long
you think everyone owes you a living. There's been plenty of jobs over
the past few years tey you've still not managed to get one. When did you
last work?

Firstly there are far fewer jobs than people applying. Why punish
people for that situation? it's completely nonsensical.

People are owed a living; noone asks to be born and people aren't
responsible for the system they are born into. This is how the system
works so if you expect people to contribute then you surely must owe
them a living otherwise how can they? This contradiction is cruel.

It's utterly disingenuous to say 'there have been plenty of jobs over
the past few years' - what does that mean? How does that apply to the
situation?

Lastly the government doesn't seek 100% employment; 8-% employment is
generally regarded as full employment. It helps employers if there is
a perpetual pool (regardless of who's in it) of labour to choose from.
Helps keep wage bills down, which is one of the problems people have
with economic migration.

m***@hotmail.com

2009-02-24 20:55:26 UTC

Post by g***@googlemail.com

Firstly there are far fewer jobs than people applying. Why punish
people for that situation? it's completely nonsensical.
People are owed a living; noone asks to be born and people aren't
responsible for the system they are born into. This is how the system
works so if you expect people to contribute then you surely must owe
them a living otherwise how can they? This contradiction is cruel.
It's utterly disingenuous to say 'there have been plenty of jobs over
the past few years' - what does that mean? How does that apply to the
situation?
Lastly the government doesn't seek 100% employment; 8-% employment is
generally regarded as full employment. It helps employers if there is
a perpetual pool (regardless of who's in it) of labour to choose from.
Helps keep wage bills down, which is one of the problems people have
with economic migration.

Not sure about people being owed a living.
Apart from its own staff, government in our society should not be in
the business of giving people jobs. Thats what we have employers for.
And what would they like? 18 year old with degree and 30 years
experience would be nice, obviously won't get that so they go to the
marketplace for what they can get.
Impose limitations on who can apply, set wages at a certain level, you
get so many applicants. Pick the best ones for the job. See if someone
accepts.

Government should impact the market to create conditions, thats how we
stopped having 8 year olds working in factories, thats how we stopped
employers starving their workforce.
But workers wanting higher wages all the time also impacts employers.
Look at our manufacturing 50 years ago compared to today. Look at the
strikes to avoid modernisation that reduced jobs, look at quality
control that reduced jobs, look at the higher costs that caused
companies to fail to secure work.
We got rid of some industry ourselves. Coal mining anyone?

Pretty sure that during a recession/depression is not the time for
government to meddle in the marketplace over wages. They can make
things a lot worse.

Martin <><

g***@googlemail.com

2009-02-24 08:22:18 UTC

Post by Robbie
Personally I would remove access to hardship payments for people who
have been unemployed for so long or who have been sanctioned more than a
certain amount of time. You're just milking the system dry and should be
forced to shape up or be kicked off benefits.
--
Robbie

So you remove someone's hardship payments (which are not automatic
entitlements anyway). What then?

You can resort to stereotyping the guy: let's call him lazy and an
scrounger - that's what the media does. How does that help anyone?
Will that get him a job?

What good does it do to remove someone's only source of income? Do you
think they will automatically become contrite and immediately turn up
at the nearest mcdonalds, cap in hand, feeling suitably chastised and
'get a job'?

This sort of thinking is as two dimensional as it is unhelpful.

So we have an underclass of people with no income at all because we
've decided they are lazy scroungers who need to be taught a lesson.
What a lovely world to live in. Do you think that will actually
produce the results you want? What do you think people with no income
are going to do - give u and crawl under the nearest rock to
conventiently expire out of sight?

Farcry

2009-02-23 13:00:45 UTC

snip

Post by Niteawk
I get the feeling that A4e are trying to avoid kicking people off their
course.
Of course they are hawk they want they want there cash at the end of the
day that's all they care about "a4e = profit above all else" they should
use that as a motto I only charge them 2 grand for the idea same rate as
there CVs :o)

Far.

Mike

2009-02-23 17:15:09 UTC

There are probably agreed criteria and if only 1 day missed is the
criteria then A$e would be correct in putting you off the course. The
benefit decisions are nothing to do with them.

IIRC whilst receiving JSA you can have uptotwo period off sick per annum
provided they total no more than 14 days. I would have thought provided
you contatc the JC IMMEDIATELY and advise them your JSA claim would
continue. If it doesn't it's the IS/IB route.

Mike

Robbie

2009-02-23 18:07:39 UTC